Changa (smokeable Ayahuasca) [Archive]

Ximot

23-06-2007, 00:10

I was fortunate enough to come across some "changa" recently. Changa is a combination of herbs that contain an MAOI and are infused with DMT... the experience is a LOT like Ayahuasca and far more grounding and insightful than smoking DMT on its own. I find it extremely enjoyable, too. It's gentler, less freaky, lasts longer, and yet it goes very deep.

Here's a link with more info. http://forums.mycotopia.net/showthread.php?t=12180

Now that my changa has almost run out (I have only 1 dose left) I am wondering how to transform my modest DMT stash into changa by adding some MAOI to it when I smoke it. If anyone else has tried this or is going to try this, please post here.

I will probably try smoking DMT with peganum harmala seeds sometime soon, and if that doesn't work I will try with Passionflower. If thatdoesn't work, I'm gonna have to find some other MAOI-containing herbs...

peace+love
one+all

egor

23-06-2007, 00:40

You could always add a small ammount of freebase harmine to the remaining nn,dmt.

willow11

23-06-2007, 10:50

I've smoked DMT with passionflower before, with no appreciable change or alteration in the effects, except perhaps a slightly calming quality. Tastes nice though..... How certain is anyone that passionflower/s contain sufficent harmine anyhow?

Coolio

23-06-2007, 11:03

Passionflower doesn't contain enough harmine if you smoke the plant matter. It requires an extraction or tea to be sufficient for its MAOI qualities.

willow11

23-06-2007, 11:14

^^^I don't even find a tea very effective for anything either, MAOI wise. Calming and flavorsome though :)

Piper methysticum

24-06-2007, 01:21

Not to get off topic, but I am very experienced with Passion Flower, and I haven't seen any sufficient MAOI activity.

canaana

24-06-2007, 11:19

You should do a simple A/B extraction of the rue seeds before you smoke them... it will work a hell of a lot better, and won't taste like smoking wood, like smoking the seeds does(I've tried both)

I have never heard of this "changa" before, although, a few years ago, after my first ayahuasca experience, I had a bit of tea left over, and my friend thought it would work if we just evaporated the tea to a powder/paste and smoke it.... in short... no effects were felt and it clogged up a nice bubbler...

folias

25-06-2007, 02:55

You could try melting your DMT on a plate under some boiling water... then adding the herbs and then stirring, and then let dry.

The passionflower contains a small amount of harmine, and harmine when smoked, you only need micrograms to create 50% MAO-A inhibition.

I pulled this from a thread on forums.ayahuasca.com from "doctorcito"

Have you ever read at which concentrations harmine is plainly efficacious as a MAO-A inhibitor in vivo? It's in the low nanomolar range: if smoked, absolute doses in the 100 µg-1 mg range may achieve 50% MAO-A inhibition and beyond. Furthermore a recent study with a caapi extract found it was 100 to 1000 fold more potent than harmine alone as MAO-A inhibitor (Schwarz et al. 2003, in comm. bibliog.).

Also, people find that for whatever reason, the DMT and ayahuasca vine/leaf people often put in their changa, seem to amplify the effect of the herbs that one uses in the mix.

This concurs with the way that ayahuascaros use various admixture herbs in their ayahuasca brews, and the effects of these herbs are amplifed when combined with ayahuasca.

Pretty magical stuff...

Julian.

willow11

25-06-2007, 03:36

Gaian Planes

25-06-2007, 03:52

folias

25-06-2007, 05:42

One of the most interesting things I learnt in the Amazon was how many different plants they use with ayahuasca... ayahuasca is seen as some kind of activator of the other plants... some of these plants are used for healing of the physical body, some of them for magical or shamanic purposes... but often they would not consider using the plants by themselves because the ayahuasca vine seems to potentiate them quite considerably or regulates their power.

For example, they don't use, nor would ever use datura by itself, but in an ayahuasca brew, they use a small amount of datura flowers (usually), to make a brew more visualy full and expansive.

Mullein is a key herb used in changa, because it is a lung herb and herbs the body to deal with the harsh DMT smoke... also, I have heard of people having very profound
lung healings with this material too.

Julian.

IGNVS

26-06-2007, 03:43

i realy think your on to something here. did a minor search. found mullien floating around somewhere in cyberspace. anyone ever heard of it, and imperticularly as an additive to make the smoke smoother on your lungs and posible healing effects on the lungs. chek it out tell me whats up. some caapi leaves infused with a couple hundred mgs of my freind dmt and a few nice additives like the one above might be quite a great mix of plants

willow11

26-06-2007, 03:58

Would be interesting to smoke such herbs whilst under the influence of DMT and try to judge whether it had an effect...or before maybe...might be a good way to relax before a DMT trip anyways, to puff on a little passionflower...

I've noticed that mugwort and scullcap (strongly brewed in teas) when on LSD hada noticeable effect- but I can't discount my knowledegd of what these herbs werea lleged to do.

I have smoked DMT on mullein too (I can think of many who would have :)), and can't say my lungs are worse because of it. I've never smokeda lot of mullein, but I've mixed it with weed just for kicks.

egor

26-06-2007, 07:27

Delsyd

16-07-2008, 00:35

So is mullein a good candidate to make changa or not?
If not whats is a good herb to infuse DMT and harmaline crystals into?

Mullien is not too harsh, thats what i like about it (seems to be the main ingredient in spice gold and the spice-a-likes).
Would spearmint work good?

Also can someone reresh my memory on how to infuse DMT onto an herb.
thanks.

MistaSmokalot

16-07-2008, 03:24

T. McKenna talks a lot in True Hallucinations of smoking Caapi nto potentiate mushrooms for what thats worth.

Folias, I've often wondered whether so called 'herbal 'highs' such as damiana, pasiflora, mugwort etc. (which have very little 'psyoactivitiy to me at least) have reputations as 'highs' because they have been used as admixtures in aya brews....

when t mckenna talks about smoking that while on mushrooms it sounds SO intriguing, makes me want to take a gram of mush JUST to feel those effects he talks about (and I don't like mushrooms)

as far as changa, it sounds awesome, but I should experiment with DMT first before anything ;)

IGNVS

16-07-2008, 04:17

dmt on mullein was good, real smooth and lemony. havnt tried it with harmala alkaloids in the mix tho

nanobrain

17-07-2008, 18:25

Changa as starter carrier, add nnDMT to 70% std, b.caapi, 5% DPT. administer to those who say they 'have had DMT'. 1 bong. film reaction. dont get egotistical from all the thankyous. white light will prevail.

um, someone say Folias? ;-)

Gaian Planes

17-07-2008, 19:06

you've tried MET also? Does the DPT lengthen the experience iye?

Re-interested in changa again I just found a vial of it.

willow11

18-07-2008, 00:57

um, someone say Folias? ;-)

Julias. Lol. Folian. Lul.

DPT you say? Hmm.....

tobs

07-01-2009, 10:30

hi everybody,me and a couple of friends discovered changa a couple of years ago,ive smoked it while on ketamine,which was very interesting to say the least lol...this year i was fortunate enough to get hold of a couple of acid tabs,me and my friends also made a brew up with caarpi,mushrooms and blue locust flowers,we ate green and blacks chocolate ,when i was peeking from the acid and shrooms i smoked some changa,it made the effects of the changa last for about half an hour! in that half an hour the ayahuasca spirit gave me some kind of reiki,it was a very real and magical amazing experience,for 2 years my back had been in a bad way from scaffolding,the day after the healing my back was sorted out and has been ever since, we had read that the chocolate works as a maoi,it did along with the shrooms and acid,if you like changa youve gotta try my recipe lol-light and love

willow11

07-01-2009, 11:22

^Chocolate isn't a MAOi, and is actually not very wise to use with one.

nanobrain

07-01-2009, 12:08

DPT, MET and other analogs are no longer being used. the formula for a guaranteed ++++ each and every time is acacialoid DMT 50% by weight, b.caapi 45%, blue lotus / other 'neutral' carrier herbs 5%.

effingcustie

08-01-2009, 00:04

^ is that caapi leaves? or vine shavings?

Gaian Planes

08-01-2009, 00:41

some combinations that I've tried that work well:

kanna + DMT + cannabis

DMT + harmaline hcl + cannabis

DMT + b caapi leaves + cannabis

DMT + b caapi + poppy pod tea

DMT + MET + harmaline hcl

DPT + MET + harmaline hcl

Shakti

08-01-2009, 03:53

Has anyone tried snorting harmine hcl before smoking dmt? If so what would a good dose be?

nanobrain

08-01-2009, 03:54

^ is that caapi leaves? or vine shavings?

freshly dried leaf works well - accounting for seasonal variation in alk. concentration - it tends to provide for a more relaxed, cushion-type experience, but for ceremonial grade blends, vine shavings from a particularly wisened caapi. in choosing your caapi, go for the vine pieces that still are not completely dried through and will resist being twisted against their natural helical curve.

Gaian Planes

08-01-2009, 06:36

shakti what purpose would snorting achieve? My understanding is you want it in your stomach literally to do its work.

Ismene

08-01-2009, 08:46

How can smoking an MAOI get anywhere near enough into your body to create an MAOI effect?

Are we sure it's not the placebo effect people are noticing?

willow11

08-01-2009, 09:50

^The harmala alkaloids are active at very low doses, sub-milligram, when smoked or so I have read. My thing lies in the fact that MAOi needs to occurr before the DMT enters for the inhibition to prolong the effects of changa; obviously a fair bit of DMT is still chewed up by MAO A as changa's effect, while longer lasting the plain n,n,DMT, isn't all that much longer as much as stronger.

nanobrain

08-01-2009, 12:05

^at stated concentrations, the overall experience is in most subjects prolonged by the caapi to ~60+ minutes, with the out of body component lasting 15-20 minutes, active psychedelia for ~45 minutes, subjectively perceived 'off baseline' for up to an hour - and longer in some cases.

i would also be amiss not to mention the prolonged medicinal and antidepressant effects which i believe are due to the unique pharmacospiritual profile of DMT/caapi blend, examples of which include disappearance of 'voices' aka auditory hallucinations in a borderline paranoid schizophrenic patient for up to 2 weeks following 1-time administration; complete disappearance of fear of death specifically and fear in general in a preoperative patient with an aesophageal tumour; total cessation of OCD symptomatics in a number of cases, again with one-time admin and general feedback that significant antidepressant action is noted for up to a week following the respective ++++'s.

very very far from even the most active of placebos ;-)

willow11

08-01-2009, 20:22

^Interesting (particualrly the reduction in voices under schizophrenia). Are you saying the MAO inhibiton contributes to this anti-depressant effect, or moreso the experience? DMT is easily the most therapuetic tool. Also, nanobrain, I let my email adress lapse, but I shall return fire to you shortly :)

Delsyd

08-01-2009, 21:20

there was a thread a while ago started by yaesutom where he described giving a schizophrenic friend of his DMT and it helping him significantly.

just thought id throw that inthere since nano brought it up.

Gaian Planes

08-01-2009, 22:38

harmaline definitely works smoked! but after a few times I would have to say I don't recommend it, because it does feel like an irritant to lung tissue.

I would prefer to swallow a capsule of harmaline and then a few moments (15 mins?) later smoke some DMT.

this works best for my goals (potentiation/lengthening the trip).

jamaica0535

09-01-2009, 00:53

Freebase whatever your smoking if you smoke it....

would the MAOI reach the brain and have the effects it needs before the DMT trip was over?

that said, has anyone done some MAOIs and then smoked DMT? that would be one hell of a ride...

willow11

09-01-2009, 01:15

This is a good thread looking at DMT's possible (and in my opinion, verified by personal experience) role in relieving anxiety at low doses. Check it out, its an interesting read http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?p=6654151 :)

nanobrain

09-01-2009, 01:22

ok, lets think a bit. for oral ayahuasca, since the DMT is rapidly broken down by gut and hepatic MAO, oral MAOI is required - the caapi - whose alkaloids are also partially subject to metabolic breakdown before producing the desired inhibitory effects. bioavailability via oral shows a wide variability depending on individual metabolic nuances.

this however is not the case with the smoked ayahuasca - this ROA bypasses the gut/liver MAO altogether, delivering a hefty dose of caapi alkaloids (as pointed out by Folias above, caapi is orders of magnitude more potent as a MAOI than harmine) in tandem with the DMT right across the ol'BBB.

the experiential/cognitive/behavioral states described by neuropsychopharmacologically trained individuals and by those who also sampled the constituent crystal in same doses sans caapi confirm transitory but almost complete MAO inhibition which certainly makes sense from the potentiation and prolongation perspectives.

folias

09-01-2009, 05:35

Imperia (http://www.russianstandard.com)

folias

09-01-2009, 05:40

"Chunga-Changa" song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6kdvSc8al8)

Shakti

09-01-2009, 05:45

shakti what purpose would snorting achieve? My understanding is you want it in your stomach literally to do its work.

Well, as I see it there are two reasons. If you're going to smoke the dmt, then you're bypassing the gut MAO, so to inhibit the mao in your gut is pointless. If you snort the harmine then it wont be caught up in you gut and will work to inhibit the MAO in your cns, thus having a more pronounced effect on your experience.

willow11

09-01-2009, 05:53

Hey nice post nanobrain, and also strange song and link to vodka site from Folias.

feelgoodhit

09-01-2009, 07:40

that song isn't really *about* changa, is it?

willow11

09-01-2009, 07:56

^Dear god, I hope not.

nanobrain

09-01-2009, 10:08

"Chunga-Changa" song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6kdvSc8al8)

the original indeed, often imitated, never replicated. damned Russians ;-)

Chunga Changa update (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWGovsuRWYM)

TRPPNASS_DSCOMONKE

10-01-2009, 01:57

whats the vodka link about, it wouldnt take me anywhere.

nanobrain

10-01-2009, 02:16

^that's cause you are not privy to the secret world domination plans of the Russian elfmagick alchemist enclaves ;-)

the key to the mystery is of course carefully encoded within the very lyrics of the Chunga-Changa song itself, if every 2nd vowel on odd-numbered lines were to be substituted for the 23rd pictoglyph of the infamous proto-meso-sumarian script and thus onbackwards, and the resultant text folded 4xacross, tied neatly with a virgin whale's tooth hair and burnt at midnight of the second full moon of the month and the smoke signals produced ran through a stack of Crays in your basement, all shall be revealed

Tabaluga

10-01-2009, 03:02

I have never understood the obsession with gut MAO. I mean, I can understand that people focussed on this when this was the only place we knew MAO existed, but we've known about CNS MAO for many years now so it is time for a rethink!

Administration methods that bypass the gut and take the tryptamine/MAO directly to the brain have been shown to work well before the MAOI has time to reach the gut. I think the smoked MAOI/DMT combo is the best proof yet that gut MAO is mostly irrelevant. I encourage anyone who still has doubt to try this method for themselves before commenting so that they can argue from a position of experience rather than from a position of theoretical nitwittery as is so common on this forum.

Changa hits hard and hits well before one exhales, which provides a timeframe well in line with other drugs that act directly on the CNS such as smoked crack, meth, nicotine, dmt, etc. These substances are taken up in the lungs from where they go back to the heart and then to the brain and body. If a body pass was required for the MAOI to work then an additional 30-60 seconds would be the absolute minimum required [much longer if the body pass has to be followed by another brain pass].

I hope we can finally put the gut MAO obsession to bed and focus on the CNS MAO.

Coolio

10-01-2009, 03:15

The MAOI effects aren't what 'hits hard and hits well'. The beta-carbolines are centrally acting psychedelics and intoxicants in and of themselves.

Tabaluga

10-01-2009, 05:13

The MAOI effects aren't what 'hits hard and hits well'.

actually, if you were to smoke the equal amount of dmt by itself you would not get the same strong effects. ie the smoked MAOI allows more dmt to get to the brain even within those first 30 seconds.

But you are right about your second part. some beta carbolines are active in their own right and can be smoked for immediate effect

folias

10-01-2009, 05:31

Thanks tabaluga for clarifying this issue!

Key Changa herbs (according to "The Chocolate Beast")

- Any sort of mint
- Mullein or Coltsfoot
- Ayahuasca vine and/or leaf
- Passionflower
- Damiana
- Justica Pectoralis
- any kind of psychoactive lily or lotus

Ratios depend on alchemists preference.

Many people are just using ayahuasca leaf/and or vine... this is nice and strong for full breakthrough, but is not a calming, smoothing, easy to smoke, alchemically amplified herbal combination of Changa as a blend of different herbs, which work in synergy.

Also, some report blend concentrations at 30/40% DMT... for full breakthrough, this is fine, although something like 20/25%, with the sweet spot being 22.2-23%, is more useful for all circumstances and occaisions! To go deeper, just smoke more! the 2nd smoke (say half an hour later) will always be stronger too!

Also, Vodka can be used to dissolve more than just your brain!

Julian.